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| Gaining steering/rotation on a specific track. https://setup.teamxray.com/xsetup/legacy/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19094 |
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| Author: | Skiddins [ Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:24:45 ] |
| Post subject: | Gaining steering/rotation on a specific track. |
I'm after some more idea's to gain steering on the following track; The video is two years old, but I managed almost identical lap times to that race. Here's the setup I ran Yesterday; I also tried 2deg rear toe which was driveable, but didn't improve laptimes at all. I'm trying to gain rotation as I have to use full lock a bit more than I'd like. If I ran these settings at a lot of the tracks I go to it would end up too loose. The fastest cars were around 0.4s per lap faster. There were a few things I didn't get the chance to try as it was a proper meeting and I wasn't there for Saturday practice, like PSS shocks etc. |
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| Author: | DaleBurr [ Mon Jul 20, 2015 15:01:06 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gaining steering/rotation on a specific track. |
I'd give you my setup, but I only beat you by about a second so not sure that's the kind of gain you're looking for  Weirdly I use a super-stable setup at Adur for new tyres, then have to start dialing front-end in as the tyres wear. My car was mega on Saturday but it must have gone out on the beer or something as it was nowhere on Sunday in similar grip/temp. |
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| Author: | robbie dodge [ Mon Jul 20, 2015 18:32:45 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gaining steering/rotation on a specific track. |
Are you looking to reduce rear grip or increase front grip? I always struggle with finding front grip on asphalt personally, but I sure can help you reduce rear grip! |
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| Author: | Skiddins [ Tue Jul 21, 2015 01:55:25 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gaining steering/rotation on a specific track. |
| Author: | DamianW [ Tue Jul 21, 2015 02:50:29 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gaining steering/rotation on a specific track. |
Awesome track. You front end lower blocks setup reduces caster and has near zero front camber gain. With only 1.5deg of static camber I think you will not have enough camber mid corner. More static camber ie 2 deg will help but I would also increase camber gain to increase steering mid corner. With the same front shock position that you have, I have found using shock position 3 in the rear with 1.2mm rear sway bar to provide more rear stability in high speed sweepers whilst having better rotation in tight sections, which is something else you could try. |
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| Author: | robbie dodge [ Tue Jul 21, 2015 23:12:56 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gaining steering/rotation on a specific track. |
I agree on sticking with 1.5 front camber and increasing camber gain by removing the 1mm shim under the inside front link. I also think 1.5 rear camber would be good to reduce a little side bite and increase forward bite. You could try going up on front oil, to 450 or possibly 500 and that should help the car stay flat on the nose and make some more steering. You could also try going softer on the rear oil which would allow weight to transfer to the front quicker when you get off power, and I believe with the softer rear oil it allows the car to roll more on the rear which generally makes less traction. The best my car has felt so far on asphalt with the standard shock setup is with 450 front oil, 300 rear, and 4-hole 1.1 pistons all around. You could also try going back to the 1.4 front bar, and 1.2 rear. I've not tried the 1.2 rear bar with the shock in hole 3 as Damian mentioned, but maybe I'll give that a shot this weekend. I feel that adding the steering plate will increase steering everywhere on asphalt. I noticed your diffs are both down. I spoke with Alex about this a little and he said that the lower diffs will give more forward bite, but it will hurt high speed steering. I run 13.5 only this year and he said for that class, most of the Xray guys at ETS just run their diffs up all the time. You may see the mod guys drop their diffs from time to time to achieve more forward bite though. Lastly, to reduce rear grip you could try going from 4mm to 3mm on the outside rear link for less rear camber gain (but I would then leave the rear camber at 2*). Or you could try a softer rear spring, maybe just a linear 2.5. Something I'm going to test a little bit this weekend is the 2-hole hard front arm using the outer hole. Lemieux has said that the outside hole on that arm will make the car react faster to steering input as it reduces the leverage that the wheel has on the shock, and increases the progressive dampening feel. Guess I'll have to get back to you on that one. |
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| Author: | Skiddins [ Wed Jul 22, 2015 02:07:09 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gaining steering/rotation on a specific track. |
| Author: | robbie dodge [ Wed Jul 22, 2015 21:13:39 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gaining steering/rotation on a specific track. |
| Author: | Skiddins [ Thu Jul 23, 2015 02:24:17 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gaining steering/rotation on a specific track. |
just realised I'd also fitted a 10k rear diff by accident as well 
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| Author: | grippgoat [ Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:30:44 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gaining steering/rotation on a specific track. |
Could try more ackerman shim, too. It helped me with mid corner steering on asphalt in the sweeping 180s, which that track seems to have a fair number of. |
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| Author: | robbie dodge [ Mon Jul 27, 2015 18:47:24 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gaining steering/rotation on a specific track. |
xform/index.php?act=view&ID=423&setup=t4_2015 I just ran this setup this past weekend on a parking lot that was very well prepped and had medium grip, and I felt I had good steering with this setup. In round 3 I decided to go from 1mm of shim under the inside rear link up to 2mm and the car actually developed a slight amount of oversteer coming out of 180s. I went down to 1.5mm for the main and the car had good rotation and was comfortable coming out of the 180s. As far as I know, I was the only guy running the Powers 36, while everyone else in at least the top 5 was on the Powers 34. The track was really cool in the main as the sun was already set. If I had 34s I think I could have made a charge for the win. Round 3, the guy that TQ'ed and I both went 10.18 and 10.19 respectively. In the mains we both slowed to 10.34 for him, and 10.37 for me. I was baking the tires at 140 for around 35-40 minutes with a heavy layer of tweak and a blue paper towel on the tires. I think on 34s I could've baked at 140 for maybe 15-20 minutes with a little less sauce. |
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| Author: | DamianW [ Tue Jul 28, 2015 15:12:22 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gaining steering/rotation on a specific track. |
How long do you find the TP 36's rubber lasts before going off? |
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| Author: | robbie dodge [ Tue Jul 28, 2015 17:51:42 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gaining steering/rotation on a specific track. |
| Author: | DamianW [ Wed Jul 29, 2015 13:45:28 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gaining steering/rotation on a specific track. |
Thats good to know I will have to try them again. I always found whilst TP 36 rubber looks to be in perfect condition the rubber goes really hard after 6-8 runs. Tried a few different additives but nothing seemed to stop the rubber going off. |
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| Author: | robbie dodge [ Wed Jul 29, 2015 17:10:56 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gaining steering/rotation on a specific track. |
I see. I'd be interested to hear what you find after 6-8 runs. Unfortunately I am done asphalt racing for the season and getting a head start on carpet, so mine won't see any more than the 4 runs they have now. |
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| Author: | DamianW [ Fri Jul 31, 2015 05:57:01 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gaining steering/rotation on a specific track. |
Picked up a set ready for testing tonight. Do you have any specific advice for additive, time and temperature? I have, Tweak, LRP Carpet 3, LGC2, Red Dot, WD-40 & MG V3. |
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| Author: | robbie dodge [ Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:44:06 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gaining steering/rotation on a specific track. |
| Author: | DamianW [ Sat Aug 01, 2015 11:14:31 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gaining steering/rotation on a specific track. |
Thanks. For completeness my home track is high grip and very low wear. Sorex 36's that are 30 plus runs old are only 0.2s per lap slower than a brand new set. I tried them again and used brake cleaner and tweak, warmed at 60 deg for about 20 minutes. Lap times reduced every run and after 5 runs they were 0.4s down on there first run. Tyre surface looks perfect and the car was still balanced but rubber went hard and lacked grip. Perhaps on a more abrasive track they would work better. |
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| Author: | robbie dodge [ Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:18:43 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gaining steering/rotation on a specific track. |
You could be right, our track isn't new asphalt but it's not old. It's a parking lot so it sees some traffic and has some bumps. Sorry it didn't go any better for you. I've only really run this 1 set and I only got to 4 runs on them. I've heard of people getting tons of runs on these and the 34, but maybe they're doing something different, or they're lucky that the tires last like that at their track. What brake cleaner did you use? Wurth? I never felt like wurth gave me maximum traction. |
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| Author: | DamianW [ Sat Aug 01, 2015 13:13:57 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gaining steering/rotation on a specific track. |
Brake cleaner is Moly brand works well for me at least with other brands of tyres. |
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